The only heavyweight to have beaten Gene Tunney.

Dadgad · Joined: 07 Oct 2006 Posts: 1897

If James J Jeffries is the most under - rated heavyweight in history, then surely the prime candidate for the dubious honour of most under - appreciated would be Gene Tunney, though perhaps only by a short head from Larry Holmes. Few would doubt Tunney's abilities, yet it's a fair bet that during the inevitable shuffling of names which occurs in struggling to whittle the heavyweights down to a top ten, ( as though it were really possible, ) Tunney is probably the first of the pre 1970s fighters to be discarded in order to make way for someone else. Leave Jack Dempsey out of a top ten list and you risk ridicule ; leave out the man who twice beat him and you'll raise little more than a whisper of dissent. Closer analysis of his fighting credentials would suggest that this is largely due to Tunney the man, as opposed to Tunney the boxer.

Why is it that so many fight fans are so lukewarm toward Tunney ? Some have suggested that it is because he was unfortunate enough to be the man to beat and follow Jack Dempsey, and that wherever Tunney would subsequently find himself he would always hear a giant's footsteps behind him. While this is almost certainly partly true it surely doesn't tell the whole story. It was Ezzard Charles' misfortune to beat and follow Joe Louis, and yet Charles holds a special place in the hearts of a great many fight fans. Neither can it be merely that Tunney lacked Dempsey's ability to generate raw excitement, since again the same could be said of Charles in comparison to Louis. It's true, of course, that Tunney was somewhat aloof, and that like Lennox Lewis and to a lesser extent Larry Holmes he could be accused of having forgotten to invite the fans to the coronation party when he won the heavyweight crown, but as his own generation has dwindled it has given way to subsequent generations of fans who surely have no cause to harbour resentment over this, and can simply appreciate what is clearly evident in the films of his two fights against Dempsey, and the one against Carpentier ; Gene Tunney was an extraordinary boxer who was capable of giving anybody a good fight.

A look at Tunney's credentials confirms his pedigree. As a fighter he was something akin to a heavyweight Benny Leonard. That he merits such high praise should be impressive, yet perversely, the comparison with Leonard serves rather to underscore one of the reasons for lack of genuine affection for Tunney, because the stereotype for a heavyweight champion has more in common with Roberto Duran than Benny Leonard. A lightweight who fights like Leonard is a marvel ; a heavyweight who fights like Leonard is unlikely to inspire anything more than grudging admiration. Tunney and Leonard were contemporaries, of course, and both came out of New York. While Benny Leonard was fighting for quarters on the tough streets of the lower east side, Tunney was doing exactly the same thing for fun three or four miles away in the more affluent Greenwich Village. So tough an apprenticeship would serve him well in both the Armed Forces and the professional ring. As a young Marine he is said to have challenged an NCO, who was making his life a misery, to settle their differences in the boxing ring. Tunney administered a pasting and thereafter enjoyed a quieter life. As a pro he was only beaten once, and that by the all - time great Harry Greb at lightheavy, ( though some observers insisted that Greb actually beat Tunney twice. ) It was a savage beating, during which Tunney, battered and bleeding, more than once begged the referee not to stop the fight, his rationale being that he was ' learning. ' Having duly survived to hear the final bell, Tunney immediately made plans for revenge, and the following day, bruised and battered, he posted a bond at the offices of the governing body for a rematch. Clearly, Tunney was both hard as nails and brave as a lion. His skills and speed are legendary, and need no endorsement here, except perhaps to say that some were of the opinion that his skills won him nineteen of the twenty rounds he fought against Dempsey. Softened by the good life or not, Dempsey was still a dangerous and formidable foe in 1926 / 7, and it's hard to imagine another heavyweight lacking a killer punch but still able to stage a shut out and a near shut out against him and then having the supreme self - confidence to offer him a third fight. As to Tunney's lacking that killer punch ; well he was certainly no Joe Louis, but after overcoming brittle hands early on in his career it would be fair to say that he subsequently developed the power to throw hurtful punches, and probably hit hard enough to spoil an opponent's day. Thus far then, we can reasonably credit him with tremendous courage, a stout chin, sublime skills, speed, and a decent, though not devastating, punch. That's a pretty impressive resume on its own, but now add in the dedication to his fitness and conditioning which saw him able to fight almost effortlessly, on front foot or back, for an entire fight, ( legend has it that Tunney used to run backwards for miles to strengthen his legs and improve his co - ordination and balance, ) together with his innate ability to identify his opponents' weaknesses, the intelligence to exploit those weaknesses by planning a suitable strategy in meticulous detail, nerves of ice, unshakeable self belief, and it becomes almost impossible to omit him from a list of the greatest heavyweights.

And yet we often do.

Some critics have described Tunney as a ' synthetic ' champion, insofar as his achievements bear witness to his enormous willpower, determination and intelligence as much as they do to his natural talent. But isn't that also true of nearly every great champion, in whatever field ? It's most certainly true of Joe Louis, who by contemporary accounts was extremely raw until Chappie Blackburn honed him in to one of the greatest fighters of all time. How many hours did Mike Tyson study the old newsreels, stealing a combination here, footwork there, Dempsey's bob and weave, Johnson's uppercut, etc.? For that matter, how many hours did Stephen Hendry spend at the snooker practice table, or Tiger Woods with a putter in his hands ?

Tunney's outside interests were at odds with the image of what a heavyweight champion should be. One of the adjectives most often used to describe him is ' erudite. ' For most of us that would be a compliment, but for a heavyweight champion of the world at the end of the roaring twenties it was tantamount to an insult. If Jack Dempsey had been born in the 1850s he would have been Billy The Kid ; if Tunney had been born in the 1850s he would have been Oscar Wilde, and therein probably lies the single most significant reason of all that Tunney never received the acclaim befitting his fighting ability. His friendship with George Bernard Shaw, ( often described, scathingly, as ' hob - nobbing, ' ) was less acceptable to fight fans than Sonny Liston's alleged links to the underworld or Tyson's scrapes with the law. Likewise his obsession with literature in general, and Shakespeare in particular, won him no friends in the boxing fraternity. As one writer from the period wrote, " Let's have heavyweight champions with more wallops and less Shakespeare. " Tunney also wrote numerous newspaper and magazine articles of widely varying subject matter, from anti cigarette smoking campaigns to heaven knows what else, which served to further alienate him from fight fans. We like our heavyweight champions to be rebels. Provided, of course, that they conform to our perception of what non - conformity and rebellion are. We're more comfortable with a champ who has been to San Quentin than we are with one who has been to Harvard or Yale. The irony is that Tunney really was a rebel, and he was ostracized for it. The night he won the title, most of America was rooting for Tunney, the ex - marine, to beat Dempsey, the draft dodger. By the time of the rematch one year later sympathies had changed, and Dempsey had the people in his corner. Tunney, ever the cool thinker and pragmatist, responded by saying " They're welcome to boo me, but they'll have to pay for the privilege."

How does he measure up to the other heavyweights ? Opinions will inevitably differ, but mine is that he ranks among the very best of all time. I believe he would have out - Corbetted Corbett, and would have done to Fitzsimmons, ( at heavyweight, ) what Corbett did to him, without getting himself knocked out. He might even have beaten the mighty Jeffries, provided a fight with The Boilermaker had been over fifteen rounds or less, and he had the tools to have given any version of Dempsey or Louis a very uncomfortable evening, and perhaps even beat them. As for his chances against Marciano, I would say that a man who beats Greb at lightheavy beats Rocky at heavy. Tunney may have cut the figure of something of an intellectual Fancy Dan, but he also possessed substance and steel in abundance, and a fighter's heart. Dempsey was the only fighter who ever dropped him, and Greb the only man to beat him.

Unless, of course, we include the heavyweight of the literary world, William Shakespeare, who in his own way inflicted more damage on Tunney than Greb did, and yet who with fitting irony, might best sum up our lack of appreciation for a truly great fighter :

For we, which now behold these present days,
Have eyes to wonder, but lack tongues to praise.

Boxalot · Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 3297

Bloodyhell! Another cracker Dadgad!

Where do you get the time, mate? Fantastic post.

On a seperate note, get yourself down to the beeb. The board shuts at 12 noon GMT. My web adress has gone so i have to access the net from google so can't supply a link. For those that wish to get on there, go to www.bbc.co.uk/boxing, go on 606 and to page 2. Click on the thread (stared by fisty) "Link back to the old boxing board" and follow the link. Your presence would be welcomed, Dadgad.

Again, another cracking post, mate.

Dadgad · Joined: 07 Oct 2006 Posts: 1897

Thanks for the kind words, Boxalot.

I've been away for the day, so I missed the Beeb wake, though I'm sure I wouldn't have been welcome, anyway.

I imagine Fisty let off one or two fireworks on the day, though.

winky06 · Joined: 02 Mar 2006 Posts: 7213 Location: South London

That was a good article D, always intrested in anything concerning Gene Tunney. Ive been a huge fan ever since i read a story about him 3 years ago, he was a great.

Dadgad · Joined: 07 Oct 2006 Posts: 1897

Thanks, winky.

One of my favourites, too. I reckon if he'd carried Louis' or Dempsey's power he'd have been among the top three or four of all time.

winky06 · Joined: 02 Mar 2006 Posts: 7213 Location: South London

Dadgad wrote: Thanks, winky.

One of my favourites, too. I reckon if he'd carried Louis' or Dempsey's power he'd have been among the top three or four of all time.

For sure, I think thats the great thing about him though, he was a very strong man but like you say there was no real star quality like the power of Louis or the speed of Ali but his heart and mental will power was astonishing. Anyone who fights Harry Greb five times should be awarded for just sheer bravery. He was a real fighter.

Mr Nice · Joined: 21 Feb 2006 Posts: 561 Location: Marseille

Cracking Post dadgad.

Is Tunney's daughter still in broadmoor do you know ?

counterpuncher · Joined: 29 Dec 2005 Posts: 8988 Location: Birmingham

great post dadgad.

Tunney from what I have seen of him would have given Joe Louis fits, as I think you maye have said before.

Mr Nice · Joined: 21 Feb 2006 Posts: 561 Location: Marseille

CP , my sentiments exactly

Dadgad · Joined: 07 Oct 2006 Posts: 1897

Mr Nice and CP - thanks, fellas.

Absolutely agree that Tunney would have been a nightmare for Louis, CP. As to Tunney's daughter, I haven't a clue, Mr Nice. She must be getting on now. To be honest, I didn't even know she was incarcerated this side of the pond. I'd always assumed she was in The States.

Seer · Joined: 25 Oct 2005 Posts: 11681 Location: Alba

Absolutely cracking post, old friend. 8)

That good I've read it twice in a row! :wink:

Dadgad · Joined: 07 Oct 2006 Posts: 1897

Thanks very much, Seer.

It was you and smithy who twisted my arm into doing it, and I thoroughly enjoyed writing it.

smithy_mu · Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 1132

Great work Dadgad another great read. I've been away on holiday for the last two weeks which is why I havent been posting... Ill try and catch up over the next week.